Re: Guynemer's fate

Bill Shatzer (
Tue, 8 Aug 1995 02:00:11 -0400

>In a message dated 95-08-07 13:13:55 EDT, (Erik
>Pilawskii) writes:
>>Does this book mention if the latter machine was a
>>"presentation" a/c, or otherwise marked or ceremonialized?
>As I mentioned previously, French isn't one of my languages (These are
>limited to English and Southern). However, pictures are universal. There is
>one photo identified as a partial of S504. It shows the tail, part of the
>aft fuselage and the port wings. The tail number is obscured although it may
>be legible on the master negative. The plane is definitely uncamouflaged.
> Rib tapes are visible which implies natural finish in my opinion. 2
>nonstandard markings are visible. One is a dark triangle (black?) on the
>turtledeck. The apex is at the front of the fin and the base is forward,
>perhaps a bit short of the beginning of the headrest. The base is about a
>foot wide. There is also visible the upper end of a chevron stripe on the
>port side. The top of the numeral 2 is just visible on the aft starboard
>A color profile indicates that the 2 is red and the chevron stripe is blue at
>the top , red at the bottom and white on the fuselage side. The stripe
>passes right over the top of the stork. I hope the profile is based on
>better photos then the one that is printed, because if that photo is the only
>evidence, then the profile is mostly guesswork.
>Guesswork or not, I'll probably use it if I ever get to building a Spad. I
>just purely hate painting camouflage.

Just my added two cents worth on SPAD S504. I think I agree with almost
everything set forth above - I was going to argue on the black triangle
on the top of the rear fuselage but, on closer inspection it does appear
to be there - faint in my photos but there, none the less if you look real

I do have one photo which shows the topside of the wings - there is
definitely *no* 5-color camouflage. There is a chord-wise stripe
about 6"-8" in width narrowly outlined in white just outboard of
the center wing cut-out on the starboard side. I'd guess from the
tonal qualities that the stripe is probably red but guessing colors
from b/w photos is always risky. Finally, there is a large "2"
on the starboard wing in a dark color (black? - not the same as the
stripe in any case). The left tips of the "2" are overlapped slightly
by the stripe.

S504 is either natural or that pale yellow often used on French
a/c. My current bet is yellow but who *really* knows.

Finally - were did the information come from that Wisseman was
flying a two seater when he alledgedly downed Guynemer? My
info says that he was with Jasta 3 - did Jasta 3 even have any
two-seaters? Clarification would be appreciated.


Bill Shatzer - -